Curse

[DemoniC][EVL] · Oct 30, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Please excuse me for any errors, English is not my native language.

What does ANet expect from us players?

It’s always been said that farming is discouraged, and possibly even unwanted behaviour in guildwars. Other then farming however, there aren’t means to make decent amounts of money.

Now I’m confused about this. I can see that farming may have some undesirable effects that ‘could’ ‘destroy’ the economy, but there are ways to prevent that.

But first something else. For casual players only interested in PvE; farming is one of the few things left to do after you’ve finished the story. Sure, you can play through it again, but that does get old pretty fast. Farming is offcourse about money, but let’s not forget that it’s also fun for a lot of players.
Why would you prevent something that is fun, after all that’s what a game is about. You shouldn’t be restricted in farming because that is the way you want to play the game.

Now if farming is such a bad thing, why are there so many expensive items in guildwars? Especially with the recent updates such as inscriptions and stuff, armor is more expensive then ever. Like 1,5k armor for example, now in factions you had the ideal system, you could combine different pieces of armor, while still maintaining a unified look. Now we have these insignia’s; effectively 1,5k armor is now more expensive, you now get a piece of armor with no bonuses, and you have to separately buy an insignia per piece to make it just as good as armor from previous chapters. 15k armor is now more out of reach then ever!

Off course those insignia’s aren’t just buyable at some trader, but it’s dependant from players selling them to the rune trader. So basically they have a low availability and the potential of becoming really expensive due to demand. I’ve already seen players trying to sell insignia’s for 5k! And off course they’re not going to sell them to the trader, because the longer they keep them for themselves the more expensive they get. Now that doesn’t seem like a good thing to me…

Back to farming. Farming seems the only solution to this increase in costs, however it’s apparently unwanted. How are you supposed to make money for these items then, even normal armor is expensive now, and with less options then ever to earn money, it just seems near impossible to get basic gear.
Even weapons with no mods are now 5k compared to previous chapters. We can’t rely on quests to give us money, because we still have the rewards (which feel more like punishments) of astounding amounts like 200 gold! That’s not even enough money to buy basic things like an identification kit.

Just playing through the game in the ‘apparently’ wanted way. With parties of 8 people, you will never make enough money to even buy one piece of 15k armor, and you’ll have trouble getting 1,5k armor plus insignia’s to make it decent. Off course there’s always the exceptions in players, but 99% of players are not finding all kinds of ‘ 1337’ equipment and gold and stuff. And there’s the group of players that’ve been around since the beginning of guildwars when farming wasn’t yet so nerferd who are now sitting on millions of gold, so off course they’re not complaining.

Then there’s the npc merchants. They give 35 gold for so called rare green weapons. How is that an honest price. Well, you could off course try to sell it to real players. So you’ve stand in a town yelling WTS for 4 hours straight. Where’s the fun in that!?

There are loads of ways to at least give us other ways to make money and still have no farming if you really insist on making that impossible. How about for starters making npc merchants give decent money for stuff you find.

What about fighting for money instead of faction? I’d much rather fight for money then faction. After all, at some point you’ve unlocked all the skills you want and then what’s the point in pvp’ing, especially if you’re more into PvE to begin with.

Repeatable quests with actual worthwhile rewards. What about set prices for items so you can have farming without ruining the economy.

Maybe the insignia system should be PvP only. What was wrong with the factions system of just having multiple pieces of armor for sale with different stats?

So my question is, what do you expect from us ANet? How are we supposed to play the game then? How are we supposed to make these obscene amounts of money for even basic 1.5k armor and 5k normal weapons when we can’t farm and quest rewards just plain ‘suck’.

Now, don’t get me wrong. This is not the umpteenth rant about how farming was nerfed, I’ve never really been that much into farming anyways. I’m more concerned that all that seems to happen are changes that make it more difficult to make money, and that make even basic gear more expensive, and we’re not getting any new ways to negate/ go along with these changes.

Please if any Anet employee’s are reading this, please give us something to improve this situation.

miyamoto musashi · Oct 30, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

what is your native language?

moriz · Oct 30, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

if you can write english this well, your native language must be extremely good.

anyway, the thing with farming is that it will slowly drive prices up, so things will be worth more and more. this is undesirable, because new players will be at a serious disadvantage.

currently the prices are high. that's because NF just came out, with many people purchasing these stuff at high amounts. give it a week or two, and things will calm down.

miyamoto musashi · Oct 30, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

if you can write english this well, your native language must be extremely good.

anyway, the thing with farming is that it will slowly drive prices up, so things will be worth more and more. this is undesirable, because new players will be at a serious disadvantage.

currently the prices are high. that's because NF just came out, with many people purchasing these stuff at high amounts. give it a week or two, and things will calm down.

on the contrary, it drives the prices down, thats what happens when over supply of goods occur, (ex. ghial staff,Totem Axe, Saskai, Shadow blade, axe, etc), same thing goes for runs, i remember droknar runs used to go for 3-4k, now they are 1.5-3k. but my opinion would be, Anet does not support farming because is does not support grinding in general, and i agree you can survive in guild wars with out farming once, you can get all the best weapons and armor from crafters, but if you enjoy pretty armors then thats when you need to farm. otherwise, its all well.

reetkever · Oct 30, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by miyamoto musashi

on the contrary, it drives the prices down, thats what happens when over supply of goods occur, (ex. ghial staff,Totem Axe, Saskai, Shadow blade, axe, etc), same thing goes for runs, i remember droknar runs used to go for 3-4k, now they are 1.5-3k. but my opinion would be, Anet does not support farming because is does not support grinding in general, and i agree you can survive in guild wars with out farming once, you can get all the best weapons and armor from crafters, but if you enjoy pretty armors then thats when you need to farm. otherwise, its all well.

Hmmm as far as I can remember, Droks runs have always been 2-1K...

Well running prices will go down since everyone and his mother can run now. Just a little Cyclone Axe and all monsters around you run away to recharge - empty path, gg

Stuff like weapons/ectos won't become less expensive - there are less weapons/ecto's produced without farming, so prices might even go up.
And then there is the skills factor. Getting all skills for even 1 profession costs you over 80K.

Skyy High · Oct 30, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

reetkever, have you ever done a Droknar's run? If you had, you would know that a mob of melee monsters bodyblocking you is the least of your worries when running.

Prices have been going down for months now. The release of Nightfall spiked prices on a few things, and certainly the rarest weapons will remain 100k + ectos for a while, but they too will eventually follow the likes of zodiac bows and drop in price.

4ssassin · Oct 30, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DemoniC][EVL]

Please excuse me for any errors, English is not my native language.

What does ANet expect from us players?

It’s always been said that farming is discouraged, and possibly even unwanted behaviour in guildwars. Other then farming however, there aren’t means to make decent amounts of money.

no other way to make decent money. In my just over 1300 hrs of guild wars i have: rarely done trolls(its been at least a few months), done tombs a total of..um....5 times? never once done UW,FoW, or chest runs, farmed a total of 2 green items, did some running, but probably only around 20 hrs worth, spent no considerable amount of time buying/selling or searching for items to buy/sell.(only when i had stuff i had found in quests)

i have max stat weapons on all 5 of my pve chars, 1.5k armor on all, and 2 pieces of 15k on my war. i fully fund 3 of my friends weapon and armor purchases. i have bought 5 npcs for my hall, on all my own(bought the hall and cape too). and i haven given away perhaps 500k worth of items, runs, and gold to new and down-on-their-luck players.

I have 665k in my storage, and 20k on 5 of my chars, for a total of 765k.

And farming is the only way to make money.
(it should be noted that i did not buy gold online, or do anything like that. all money i made was simply through questing, and taking advantage of good deals when i found them.) (sorry for all edits.)

Daniel__ · Oct 30, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

it has already happened

[DemoniC][EVL] · Oct 30, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

My native language is dutch.

Anyways, I also except prices to go down eventually, but my main concern is still that things just cost a lot of money. Like the skills example mentioned. Without farming there's no way you can make the money to buy all skills for your profession.
And I don't see ANet stopping to nerf farming anytime soon, but they're not adding alternate ways to make money.
I would've no problem doing repeatable quests if they would give some decent rewards, like 1k per run. At least then you would still have means to make money. Or like the fighting for money instead of faction like a mentioned.

I think things like that would be fun, and would not immediately force grinding.

Overall the prices for equipment is just unbalanced. Either they should give us new means to make money, or lower the prices; preferably the first so getting 15k armor for example would still be quite the achievement.

@4ssassin

Though i find it hard to believe that you made that much money just playing normally I suppose it could be possible. However I believe that only a few players have that kind of luck. Things like finding good deals; if you're talking about buying low and selling high, that just doesn't work for most players, and like I mentioned before it takes loads of time. I'm not very fond of yelling WTS for 4 hours straight just to make money, I'd rather actually play the game.

Sidra · Oct 30, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

The fact that armors no longer come with bonuses is (to me) utter bullshit. Other than that, i was never really in favor of that solo farming thing. Sure, it completely defines the economy, but it's almost impossible to build up money as a newb, especially w/o the advent of skill quests now. I had 100k around a month ago, and spent it ALL in about 2 weeks just buying necessary things and upgrades I needed to keep my character somewhat useful. Farming could be said to have both dropped and raised prices, but since the demand grows exponentially as does the player base (up 1 million people or so since last december I think 0.o) some people will decide to "reap the benefits" and go cheapo on everybody else. FoW and 15k are supposed to be an extreme accomplishment. With botters, ebay, and these crazy cookie-cutter farming builds, you're instantly a 15k hit after maybe a month of playing. My friend had just gotten prophecies, was sick for a week, beat the game, and was already griffon farming w/ some FoW pieces while I was still struggling w/ THK. I don't even think he did half the missions. That's not how the game is supposed to be played, IMHO. Yes, farming can be fun, but there are other things to occupy your done-with-the-game-time now, like titles and other characters and AB, which is insanely fun for Factions owners (for me, anyway).

edited for truly, horrible, atrocious grammar xD

4ssassin · Oct 30, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

T_T no one read my post it seems. and there is a way to fight for money(kinda) you can Alliance Battle for faction, and exchange that for amber or jade, which in turn can be sold.

BTW sidra, the GW player base is over 2 million now. and i know the feeling. a girl i helped lose her noob stats had FoW armor on all 3 of her chars during her 3 month of playtime, which means she made over 1.5million gp per month as a still new player. thats pretty wrong.

I stand my my statement, and 100% support the anti farming nerf. now bring on some anti-wammo farming patches and we are set Anet.

Proudly the most hated player on Guild Wars.

reetkever · Oct 30, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Playing through Elona so far (I'm now at mission 15) gave me a spectacular 7K and some gold coins (well maybe a little more, because i bought some ID kits). I've had not a single gold drop, and only 1 purple (which was from an Istani Chest). If my Dervish gets on the mainland, and I have to buy max armor for her, all the gold I've obtained is nearly gone again.

Players who aren't very lucky, and don't get all the good drops, don't get rich by just simply playing the game. We already gain some gold by questing, but does that mean we all have to do every single quest to gain 250 gold extra?

I can't see the whole farming problem. One the one side, Anet nerfs farming to promote teamplaying, and on the other side, they improve the henchmen's AI, so we can pick them instead of real players. Also, they make heroes which we can give their own builds and skills, and even weapons. As well as the ability to lightly control them. Is there any need to go through the pain of searching a team anymore?

Loviatar · Oct 30, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DemoniC][EVL]

Overall the prices for equipment is just unbalanced. Either they should give us new means to make money or lower the prices; preferably the first so getting 15k armor for example would still be quite the achievement.

.

Either they should give us new means to make money or lower the prices

so getting 15k armor for example would still be quite the achievement

i find your statements to be mutually exclusive not to mention being direct contradictions.

easier gold is less achievement in a direct proportion to the ease of getting the gold.

the 15k was meant to be a LONG TERM trophy for the mid level player as the FOW would be completely out of reach.

the 1.5k Drok was for the casual person who played the game to that point and wanted top stats.

byteme! · Oct 30, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

To 4ssassin ^^

You've already established yourself in the game. Over time everyone will make money. Problem now is the people who weren't wealthy before NF or are new players will find it more increasingly difficult to earn the money they need to craft their desired armors/weapons let alone vanity items. This doesn't mean they still can't make money. Just means they need to grind a lil longer or use alternative ways besides farming to accumulate wealth.

On a personal note. I farm because it's one of the only few things left to do for me that I find interesting. I guess it's the thrill of finding an Uber rare item that keeps me ticking. Farming was a challenge for me. Trying to find the right build on the right character for each instance was a challenge. I had to think, strategize, and be proactive. Simple things like that kept GW interesting for me for 13 months. Without farming I perhaps would have given up on GW already because quite frankly doing the same quests/missions over and over gets old fast. Yes there is the PvP aspect of GW but again imo it gets old fast also. Not to say farming doesn't get old but I've already explained why I like it. (read above)

Anyways that's my .02.

4ssassin · Oct 30, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

hmm. maybe what Anet should do is instead of have golds drop much more often in high lvl areas, make it so that all monsters at or over lvl 20 have an equal chance of dropping golds/somegreens/uncommons. and have monsters at a lower lvl have a lower chance of dropping golds. or something along that line maybe, hmmmm? then you ppl that like farming can still go can kill the same 3 monster types over and over for 10 hrs and get items., and the ppl that like to quest still have a nice chance at getting good items.

Proudly the most hated player on Guild Wars.(slogan edited in)

[DemoniC][EVL] · Oct 30, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

Either they should give us new means to make money or lower the prices

so getting 15k armor for example would still be quite the achievement

i find your statements to be mutually exclusive not to mention being direct contradictions.

easier gold is less achievement in a direct proportion to the ease of getting the gold.

the 15k was meant to be a LONG TERM trophy for the mid level player as the FOW would be completely out of reach.

the 1.5k Drok was for the casual person who played the game to that point and wanted top stats.

Yes, I've formulated that a bit messy. I don't mean there should be easy money, by all means it should still be a challenge to get money. However there should at least be ways to make money, there just aren't any now, except for some severely crippled farming methods. Similar to what reetkever mentioned, me and a couple of friends have been through elona now, and we barely made 10k. I can buy one weapon with that kind of money and some runes or something, that's it.

supaet · Oct 30, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I think the end game of guild wars is pvp...you can be a casual pve/pvper like me. If you really only want to play pve. I don't think there is an end game for you guys. Go watch the gamespot video review for guildwars 1. The endgame is pvp. It PUSHES you toward pvp. So please, play pvp if you want something to do in the end game. Or move to another game.

Of course, you can go back to think about how you can farm and cope with the nerfes. That's very fun too. I don't knwo why exactly anet discourages farming. But there is no end game in pve. After you beat the game, that's it. Move on to pvp or quit. That's why the game name guild wars

4ssassin · Oct 30, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Ive got it! all us fairly ...hate to use it but, "rich" ppl need to charge to elona and give away all our gold to these poor new players.....wait...most of them arent new, they just blew all their money on 15k and zodiac skins and now are wondering why they have no money...wha?

seriously tho, if you have some money in storage, take a risk, help out some newbies. ive bought like 10 of em full armor, given away a ton of material, and many quest items. maybe anet is saying "be more generous greedy ppl".

Proudly the most hated player on Guild Wars.

Chilly Ress · Oct 30, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I am just waiting on the edge of my seat to see someone come in here and say, "Buy low, sell high."

[DemoniC][EVL] · Oct 30, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

But there is no end game in pve. After you beat the game, that's it. Move on to pvp or quit. That's why the game name guild wars

Now that's a bit harsh. I like this game too much to just quit it because I've played through the PvE, and if it's improved it doesn't have to end.
It's not like there isn't enough to do with titles and all, it's just that you don't have the means to continue doing everything you want.